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	<title>Comments on: A cry for help with NHibernate &#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://huddledmasses.org/a-cry-for-help-with-nhibernate/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://huddledmasses.org/a-cry-for-help-with-nhibernate/</link>
	<description>You can do more than breathe for free...</description>
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		<title>By: Joel 'Jaykul' Bennett</title>
		<link>http://huddledmasses.org/a-cry-for-help-with-nhibernate/comment-page-1/#comment-183442</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel 'Jaykul' Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://HuddledMasses.org/?p=617#comment-183442</guid>
		<description>At the end of the day, I&#039;ve fallen back on writing a custom data access layer with LINQ to SQL in order to finish the project.  

I could do the same thing with NHibernate, but I&#039;m not going to introduce a new non-Microsoft dependency to a project _someone else_ will most likely end up maintaining if it doesn&#039;t gain me anything, that&#039;s like asking someone to learn calculus before I let them balance my checkbook -- if learning calculus meant I didn&#039;t have to balance the checkbook by hand, it might be worth it...

I&#039;m not content with the end result because the business objects aren&#039;t POCO (Plain Old CLR Objects) now (I could make POCO objects, but taking the persistence out means I loose lazy loading). 


Also, I had to leave a few @EntitySet@ collection properties exposed, because LINQ goes into a tail spin during my unit-tests if I try to actually claim @IEnumerable@ on the @Factor@ objects ... I had never seen the @Operation could destabilize the runtime@ error before!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the end of the day, I&#8217;ve fallen back on writing a custom data access layer with <span class="caps">LINQ</span> to <span class="caps">SQL</span> in order to finish the project.  </p>
<p>I could do the same thing with NHibernate, but I&#8217;m not going to introduce a new non-Microsoft dependency to a project <em>someone else</em> will most likely end up maintaining if it doesn&#8217;t gain me anything, that&#8217;s like asking someone to learn calculus before I let them balance my checkbook &#8212; if learning calculus meant I didn&#8217;t have to balance the checkbook by hand, it might be worth it&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not content with the end result because the business objects aren&#8217;t <span class="caps">POCO</span> (Plain Old <span class="caps">CLR</span> Objects) now (I could make <span class="caps">POCO</span> objects, but taking the persistence out means I loose lazy loading). </p>
<p>Also, I had to leave a few <code>EntitySet</code> collection properties exposed, because <span class="caps">LINQ</span> goes into a tail spin during my unit-tests if I try to actually claim <code>IEnumerable</code> on the <code>Factor</code> objects &#8230; I had never seen the <code>Operation could destabilize the runtime</code> error before!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://huddledmasses.org/a-cry-for-help-with-nhibernate/comment-page-1/#comment-182453</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://HuddledMasses.org/?p=617#comment-182453</guid>
		<description>This is why ORM is more hype than anything - you end up working for the tool - you&#039;ve already changed your object model - now they want you to change from one to many to a many to many...see a problem here?

When you start trading design for cohesion with a tool you are in essence trying to fit the proverbial square peg in a round hole.  Your instincts told you stay clear (you decided to bite the bullet) - listen to your gut.

You should check out this article - the first person who responded to it (Brian Towers) sums up ORM very elegantly.

http://www.simple-talk.com/community/blogs/tony_davis/archive/2008/08/06/66526.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why <span class="caps">ORM</span> is more hype than anything &#8211; you end up working for the tool &#8211; you&#8217;ve already changed your object model &#8211; now they want you to change from one to many to a many to many&#8230;see a problem here?</p>
<p>When you start trading design for cohesion with a tool you are in essence trying to fit the proverbial square peg in a round hole.  Your instincts told you stay clear (you decided to bite the bullet) &#8211; listen to your gut.</p>
<p>You should check out this article &#8211; the first person who responded to it (Brian Towers) sums up <span class="caps">ORM</span> very elegantly.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.simple-talk.com/community/blogs/tony_davis/archive/2008/08/06/66526.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.simple-talk.com/community/blogs/tony_davis/archive/2008/08/06/66526.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joel 'Jaykul' Bennett</title>
		<link>http://huddledmasses.org/a-cry-for-help-with-nhibernate/comment-page-1/#comment-181948</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel 'Jaykul' Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://HuddledMasses.org/?p=617#comment-181948</guid>
		<description>IEnumerable is, of course, the right answer to the List thing, I&#039;m not sure why I didn&#039;t think of that ...

I&#039;m digging around the Java docs now, they seem more complete than the .Net ones ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IEnumerable is, of course, the right answer to the List thing, I&#8217;m not sure why I didn&#8217;t think of that &#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m digging around the Java docs now, they seem more complete than the .Net ones &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian Jancke</title>
		<link>http://huddledmasses.org/a-cry-for-help-with-nhibernate/comment-page-1/#comment-181918</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian Jancke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://HuddledMasses.org/?p=617#comment-181918</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First,</p>
<p>&#8220;foreach(Level lev in aFactorVariable){...}&#8221; You may still do this, implementing IEnumerable on you Factor.</p>
<p>Second,<br />
You seem to have unclear/unexpressed concepts. You have a pool of Factors with levels as your basis. And you have instances of those for an experiment/model. Currently you seem to mix these to. I would go and decouple those: Have Factor-&gt;Levels and Have Model-&gt;Specific Factors-&gt;Specific Levels (as copies). </p>
<p>There may be possibilities, to map a Factor inbetween Model and assigned Levels (through embedded components, maps, ...). I suggest reading the NH / Hibernate.Java Doc+Samples on these topics. However, this is going to be a complex mapping and still, you ´would have concepts you should make more explicit (in the sense of <span class="caps">DDD</span>).</p>
<p>-Sebastian</p>
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		<title>By: Ayende Rahien</title>
		<link>http://huddledmasses.org/a-cry-for-help-with-nhibernate/comment-page-1/#comment-181698</link>
		<dc:creator>Ayende Rahien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://HuddledMasses.org/?p=617#comment-181698</guid>
		<description>First issue, you want to implement IEnumerable, not List

Second issue, you need a set of many to many.
You can ask a specific question in teh mailing list</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First issue, you want to implement IEnumerable, not List</p>
<p>Second issue, you need a set of many to many.<br />
You can ask a specific question in teh mailing list</p>
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